Steve H

Acrylics vs. Polymer

31 posts in this topic

Hey Doctor G! This is similiar to a posting on another forum that is being answered by a lot of non-chemists. Could you give us a basic education or explanation of what the difference is between the two? I know a lot of people rave about the Klasse and Werkstat products because they are acrylics, so I was curious where polymers, like your products, fit into the equation. Thank you for your time and input

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Doctor G! This is similiar to a posting on another forum that is being answered by a lot of non-chemists. Could you give us a basic education or explanation of what the difference is between the two? I know a lot of people rave about the Klasse and Werkstat products because they are acrylics, so I was curious where polymers, like your products, fit into the equation. Thank you for your time and input

 

Steve,

 

Thank you for your question. I try to answer this without too much technical jargon. The products you mentioned contain polyethylene-acrylic acid which is still a polymer yet very different from what is used in the Optimum line. Polyethylene is the base in these products which is also used in candle making. The acrylic acid portion will provide substantivity which in turn results in durability versus just using polyehtylene based products.

 

The main difference with the polymers we use vs polyethylene-acrylics is that there is no cross-linking with polyethylene-acrylics. However, with the polymers we use, they will cross-link and cure within 24 hours to create a 3-dimensional matrix. This is valid for the Optimum Car Wax, Poli-Seal, and Opti-Seal. The latter cures much faster due to new technologies that we developed over the past two years.

 

Another benefit is cross-linking between layers so that if you add a layer of Opti-Seal or Optimum Car Wax on top of Opti-Seal, Poli-Seal, or Optimum Car Wax it wil bond to the previous layer(s). This can not be done with polyethylene-acrylics since there is no cross-linking capability in this technology.

 

The one advantage polyehtylene-acrylics offer is that since they are acidic by natue, they hold up better to acid rain, however, at the same time since they are acidic, they can cause minor etching of the paint. All and all, for the above reasons, our entire line is free of polyehtylene-acrylics and therefore all of the products in the Optimum line are compatible with each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve,

 

Thank you for your question. I try to answer this without too much technical jargon. The products you mentioned contain polyethylene-acrylic acid which is still a polymer yet very different from what is used in the Optimum line. Polyethylene is the base in these products which is also used in candle making. The acrylic acid portion will provide substantivity which in turn results in durability versus just using polyehtylene based products.

 

The main difference with the polymers we use vs polyethylene-acrylics is that there is no cross-linking with polyethylene-acrylics. However, with the polymers we use, they will cross-link and cure within 24 hours to create a 3-dimensional matrix. This is valid for the Optimum Car Wax, Poli-Seal, and Opti-Seal. The latter cures much faster due to new technologies that we developed over the past two years.

 

Another benefit is cross-linking between layers so that if you add a layer of Opti-Seal or Optimum Car Wax on top of Opti-Seal, Poli-Seal, or Optimum Car Wax it wil bond to the previous layer(s). This can not be done with polyethylene-acrylics since there is no cross-linking capability in this technology.

 

The one advantage polyehtylene-acrylics offer is that since they are acidic by natue, they hold up better to acid rain, however, at the same time since they are acidic, they can cause minor etching of the paint. All and all, for the above reasons, our entire line is free of polyehtylene-acrylics and therefore all of the products in the Optimum line are compatible with each other.

 

Thank you David for the education and no, it was too technical :thumbsupup[1]: Actually it makes a lot of sense. So for a follow up question, in regards to cross linking. Than do I understand that once the Acrylic has "cured" any additional application you put on won't bond to the surface. So essentially people are just wasting product?

Whereas your products will bond with 'older' or previously applied coats?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so this is my first post.

I am a member on several other forums mostly lurking and have noticed a trend.

Im not a pro as some of you are just a weekend guy who likes to make cars look good.

 

I was using and still do at times Klasse. Last year I purchased some Zaino and was wowed at how easy the stuff comes on and off. This is what I use most of the tme now.

Im not one of these crazy people who live and die by the stuff.

The trend I have noticed is the guys useing the stuff are comparing to the optimum a lot.

Dose optimum buy from zaino? or do you make your own? The wipe on sealant that both of you guys sell sounds like the same product.

What makes your product better then zaino. Is zaino a polymer as well? and what is in this stuff? In a post someone said that optimum sealant has a lot of alcohol and zaino didnt.

Im very confused and the zaino guys just seam to bash if you question the product.

Ive not bought these two products because it sounded like hype. The more I read the more it sounds like it might be the real deal.

 

Just curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you David for the education and no, it was too technical :thumbsupup[1]: Actually it makes a lot of sense. So for a follow up question, in regards to cross linking. Than do I understand that once the Acrylic has "cured" any additional application you put on won't bond to the surface. So essentially people are just wasting product?

Whereas your products will bond with 'older' or previously applied coats?

 

My pleasure Steve. The acrylic acid group bonds to clearcoat whether the clearcoat finish is acrylic-urethane, polyester-urethane, melamine-acrylic, etc. The polyethylene backbone of the polymer will be laying on top repelling water and releasing dirt. As you said there is no bonding between layers of Acrylics since there is no reactive site on the polyethylene polymers. However, adding a second coat will provide better coverage which results in increased gloss.

 

As for "curing", in the true sense of the word it means that there is a chemical reaction taking place. With polyethylene-acrylics, there is no reaction and it is more like a lacquer that dries. With the polymers we use, it cures over time since there is a condensation reaction between the polymers which will also take place when additional layers are applied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok so this is my first post.

I am a member on several other forums mostly lurking and have noticed a trend.

Im not a pro as some of you are just a weekend guy who likes to make cars look good.

 

I was using and still do at times Klasse. Last year I purchased some Zaino and was wowed at how easy the stuff comes on and off. This is what I use most of the tme now.

Im not one of these crazy people who live and die by the stuff.

The trend I have noticed is the guys useing the stuff are comparing to the optimum a lot.

Dose optimum buy from zaino? or do you make your own? The wipe on sealant that both of you guys sell sounds like the same product.

What makes your product better then zaino. Is zaino a polymer as well? and what is in this stuff? In a post someone said that optimum sealant has a lot of alcohol and zaino didnt.

Im very confused and the zaino guys just seam to bash if you question the product.

Ive not bought these two products because it sounded like hype. The more I read the more it sounds like it might be the real deal.

 

Just curious.

 

 

Thank you for your question. There is a great deal of misinformation on the Internet and detailing forums are no exception. There are products that claim to be free of silicone oils and claim to be bodyshop safe that contain silicone oils of one kind or another and if you try to paint over them, you get more fish eyes than a sillicone tire dressing! The best way to get the facts is to test them yourself or to go to the manufacturers of the product to get the facts and I applaud you for doing just that.

 

I will try to answer your questions that pertain to Optimum products only. We manufacture our entire line of products in our Memphis, TN plant. We also test each batch of our waxes, polishes, and compounds for paintability since we supply these to OEMs. We have never copied products or ideas from other manufacturers since it would limit us to what they have achieved. On the contrary every product we develop is based on unmet needs of the marketplace. The Optimum Car Wax is the first car wax that outperforms most paste waxes with the ease of spray application. It is also the only car wax that offers true UV protection. Optimum Polish is the first polish with no dusting and infinite working time. it is also the first polish to provide a complete range of paint correction with different pads. Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine is the first polymer-based no rinse wash that protects paint from marring and leaves a great gloss.

 

The Opti-Seal that you are asking about, is the most advanced sealant in the marketplace. There in nothing in the marketplace that comes close in performance, durability, and gloss. It was the result of two years of research and development. This product contains no silicone oils and only contains reactive resins that cross-link and provide long-term durability. The reactive resins are moisture cured and slcohol is a by product of the reaction with moisture so everytime it is exposed to moisture the polymers release some alcohol. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost forgot to say...thanks Doc G for taking the time to answer the questions!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very informative at the same time concise.

 

:beerchug[1]: This is what we need more of.

Rik

 

 

Thanks Rik and SteveH. When I had the idea to create a forum I wanted it to be a place where people could come and get questions answered directly from the "horses mouth" ( no offense to Dr. G.) :lshic[1]:

 

So I'm happy we have been able to meet that goal.

 

Anthony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I will try to answer your questions that pertain to Optimum products only. We manufacture our entire line of products in our Memphis, TN plant. We also test each batch of our waxes, polishes, and compounds for paintability since we supply these to OEMs.

 

 

Dr. G:

 

Which OEMs, specifically? I see that as a great point for my marketing efforts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't Klasse an updated version of the 1960's floor wax i have used it and worked fairly good.

 

I think the new Carlack/Werkstatt stuff says that it it does interlock and not just bond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if acrylics cant be layered how can SG bond to AIO?

when aio is acrylic too

 

 

Rumor is that AIO has no true acrylic properties but rather a cleaner only.

 

Anthony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now