Hey Doctor G! This is similiar to a posting on another forum that is being answered by a lot of non-chemists. Could you give us a basic education or explanation of what the difference is between the two? I know a lot of people rave about the Klasse and Werkstat products because they are acrylics, so I was curious where polymers, like your products, fit into the equation. Thank you for your time and input

Steve,

Thank you for your question. I try to answer this without too much technical jargon. The products you mentioned contain polyethylene-acrylic acid which is still a polymer yet very different from what is used in the Optimum line. Polyethylene is the base in these products which is also used in candle making. The acrylic acid portion will provide substantivity which in turn results in durability versus just using polyehtylene based products.

The main difference with the polymers we use vs polyethylene-acrylics is that there is no cross-linking with polyethylene-acrylics. However, with the polymers we use, they will cross-link and cure within 24 hours to create a 3-dimensional matrix. This is valid for the Optimum Car Wax, Poli-Seal, and Opti-Seal. The latter cures much faster due to new technologies that we developed over the past two years.

Another benefit is cross-linking between layers so that if you add a layer of Opti-Seal or Optimum Car Wax on top of Opti-Seal, Poli-Seal, or Optimum Car Wax it wil bond to the previous layer(s). This can not be done with polyethylene-acrylics since there is no cross-linking capability in this technology.

The one advantage polyehtylene-acrylics offer is that since they are acidic by natue, they hold up better to acid rain, however, at the same time since they are acidic, they can cause minor etching of the paint. All and all, for the above reasons, our entire line is free of polyehtylene-acrylics and therefore all of the products in the Optimum line are compatible with each other.

Thank you David for the education and no, it was too technical Actually it makes a lot of sense. So for a follow up question, in regards to cross linking. Than do I understand that once the Acrylic has "cured" any additional application you put on won't bond to the surface. So essentially people are just wasting product?
Whereas your products will bond with 'older' or previously applied coats?

Ok so this is my first post.
I am a member on several other forums mostly lurking and have noticed a trend.
Im not a pro as some of you are just a weekend guy who likes to make cars look good.

I was using and still do at times Klasse. Last year I purchased some Zaino and was wowed at how easy the stuff comes on and off. This is what I use most of the tme now.
Im not one of these crazy people who live and die by the stuff.
The trend I have noticed is the guys useing the stuff are comparing to the optimum a lot.
Dose optimum buy from zaino? or do you make your own? The wipe on sealant that both of you guys sell sounds like the same product.
What makes your product better then zaino. Is zaino a polymer as well? and what is in this stuff? In a post someone said that optimum sealant has a lot of alcohol and zaino didnt.
Im very confused and the zaino guys just seam to bash if you question the product.
Ive not bought these two products because it sounded like hype. The more I read the more it sounds like it might be the real deal.

Just curious.

My pleasure Steve. The acrylic acid group bonds to clearcoat whether the clearcoat finish is acrylic-urethane, polyester-urethane, melamine-acrylic, etc. The polyethylene backbone of the polymer will be laying on top repelling water and releasing dirt. As you said there is no bonding between layers of Acrylics since there is no reactive site on the polyethylene polymers. However, adding a second coat will provide better coverage which results in increased gloss.

As for "curing", in the true sense of the word it means that there is a chemical reaction taking place. With polyethylene-acrylics, there is no reaction and it is more like a lacquer that dries. With the polymers we use, it cures over time since there is a condensation reaction between the polymers which will also take place when additional layers are applied.

Thank you for your question. There is a great deal of misinformation on the Internet and detailing forums are no exception. There are products that claim to be free of silicone oils and claim to be bodyshop safe that contain silicone oils of one kind or another and if you try to paint over them, you get more fish eyes than a sillicone tire dressing! The best way to get the facts is to test them yourself or to go to the manufacturers of the product to get the facts and I applaud you for doing just that.

I will try to answer your questions that pertain to Optimum products only. We manufacture our entire line of products in our Memphis, TN plant. We also test each batch of our waxes, polishes, and compounds for paintability since we supply these to OEMs. We have never copied products or ideas from other manufacturers since it would limit us to what they have achieved. On the contrary every product we develop is based on unmet needs of the marketplace. The Optimum Car Wax is the first car wax that outperforms most paste waxes with the ease of spray application. It is also the only car wax that offers true UV protection. Optimum Polish is the first polish with no dusting and infinite working time. it is also the first polish to provide a complete range of paint correction with different pads. Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine is the first polymer-based no rinse wash that protects paint from marring and leaves a great gloss.

The Opti-Seal that you are asking about, is the most advanced sealant in the marketplace. There in nothing in the marketplace that comes close in performance, durability, and gloss. It was the result of two years of research and development. This product contains no silicone oils and only contains reactive resins that cross-link and provide long-term durability. The reactive resins are moisture cured and slcohol is a by product of the reaction with moisture so everytime it is exposed to moisture the polymers release some alcohol. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Thanks again.

Almost forgot to say...thanks Doc G for taking the time to answer the questions!

Very informative at the same time concise.

This is what we need more of.


Rik

Thanks Rik and SteveH. When I had the idea to create a forum I wanted it to be a place where people could come and get questions answered directly from the "horses mouth" ( no offense to Dr. G.)

So I'm happy we have been able to meet that goal.

Anthony

Nice reply Dr. G you covered it in a concise informative manner.

Dr. G:

Which OEMs, specifically? I see that as a great point for my marketing efforts.

Brian,

I believe it would be both Ford and Chevy if I'm not mistaken.

Isn't Klasse an updated version of the 1960's floor wax i have used it and worked fairly good.

I think the new Carlack/Werkstatt stuff says that it it does interlock and not just bond.

if acrylics cant be layered how can SG bond to AIO?
when aio is acrylic too

Rumor is that AIO has no true acrylic properties but rather a cleaner only.

Anthony

Ive never heard that anywhere
what about prime and prime strong ?

According to the Carlack materials, it is not just a cleaner.

Dr. Ghodoussi,

Does this mean acrylic sealants such as Klasse Sealant Glaze or Jeff's Werkstatt Acrylic Jett do not layer? In other words, after putting a layer of an acrylic sealant on you car, a month later if you were to put another coat on, it would remove the original coat? Or does it mean that the layers "are not as strong" as the layers from Optimum polymers?

Thanks always for your help.

Brent,

Thank you for your question. Adding a second layer of acrylic products in general, as you mentioned, will dissolve the previous layer but it will leave more protection behind than a single layer would. There is, however, a law of diminishing returns since each additional layer adds less than the original layer. So while the second layer may add an additional 20-30% more actives, a third layer may only add 3-5%. With cross-linking polymers, this is not the case since the polymer structure changes and does not readily dissolve by the solution. A good analogy would be of single component isocyanate coating that once it cross-links and forms polyurea, it will be very hard to remove. I hope this answers your question. Thanks again.

David,

Wish I'd read this before I bought some Acrylics for my German car driving customers, I think I could have converted them. Great info from DR. G in Tennesse!

Man I need to get a chemistry book or something. Never seen those words on Wheel of Fortune! Any one want to sell me a A!

Thank you for your reply David. I am currently using up what's left of my Jeff's Werkstatt Acrylic Jett before switching over to Opti-Seal. I always assumed my AJ was layering because before applying a new layer of Acrylic Jett, I put down Bob Daniels' Danase Wet Glaze and each time I do so, I can see the Danase Wet Glaze noticeably improving the depth of my white car. Based on your explaination, it sounds like Acrylic Jett and Danase Wet Glaze are "sort of" layering. Again, thank you. Looking forward to trying Opti-Seal and my Acrylic Jett runs out.

Hello. New to the forum!

Quick question... I am not a detailer, and I live in a cold weather environment (lots of road salt). I know we're not supposed to dry a vehichle if it has been run through a touchless wash, based on the fact they never remove all the dirt, and drying the car would just drag all the residual dirt accross the paint.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to run a car through a brushless wash (when there's no time to clean the car properly), at which point you could use ONR to remove all the remaining dirt, which would allow you to dry the vehichle without the risk of scratches or swirls? This would be a huge deal for me, as my car gets really dirty in winter months, but I'd still like to run it through a conventional (brushless) wash and be able to dry it as well.

Thanks in advance for your advice. I'll be ordering products today.

Hello and welcome to our forums

A great number of cold climate detailers, both pros and enthusiasts, will power wash or pre-rinse a car if extremely dirty and then go ahead with a No Rinse washing. So if your car is really dirty then this method would work out just great for you.

Anthony

Bump