Steve H

Acrylics vs. Polymer

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Steve,

 

Thank you for your question. I try to answer this without too much technical jargon. The products you mentioned contain polyethylene-acrylic acid which is still a polymer yet very different from what is used in the Optimum line. Polyethylene is the base in these products which is also used in candle making. The acrylic acid portion will provide substantivity which in turn results in durability versus just using polyehtylene based products.

 

The main difference with the polymers we use vs polyethylene-acrylics is that there is no cross-linking with polyethylene-acrylics. However, with the polymers we use, they will cross-link and cure within 24 hours to create a 3-dimensional matrix. This is valid for the Optimum Car Wax, Poli-Seal, and Opti-Seal. The latter cures much faster due to new technologies that we developed over the past two years.

 

Another benefit is cross-linking between layers so that if you add a layer of Opti-Seal or Optimum Car Wax on top of Opti-Seal, Poli-Seal, or Optimum Car Wax it wil bond to the previous layer(s). This can not be done with polyethylene-acrylics since there is no cross-linking capability in this technology.

 

The one advantage polyehtylene-acrylics offer is that since they are acidic by natue, they hold up better to acid rain, however, at the same time since they are acidic, they can cause minor etching of the paint. All and all, for the above reasons, our entire line is free of polyehtylene-acrylics and therefore all of the products in the Optimum line are compatible with each other.

 

Dr. Ghodoussi,

 

Does this mean acrylic sealants such as Klasse Sealant Glaze or Jeff's Werkstatt Acrylic Jett do not layer? In other words, after putting a layer of an acrylic sealant on you car, a month later if you were to put another coat on, it would remove the original coat? Or does it mean that the layers "are not as strong" as the layers from Optimum polymers?

 

Thanks always for your help.

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Dr. Ghodoussi,

 

Does this mean acrylic sealants such as Klasse Sealant Glaze or Jeff's Werkstatt Acrylic Jett do not layer? In other words, after putting a layer of an acrylic sealant on you car, a month later if you were to put another coat on, it would remove the original coat? Or does it mean that the layers "are not as strong" as the layers from Optimum polymers?

 

Thanks always for your help.

 

Brent,

 

Thank you for your question. Adding a second layer of acrylic products in general, as you mentioned, will dissolve the previous layer but it will leave more protection behind than a single layer would. There is, however, a law of diminishing returns since each additional layer adds less than the original layer. So while the second layer may add an additional 20-30% more actives, a third layer may only add 3-5%. With cross-linking polymers, this is not the case since the polymer structure changes and does not readily dissolve by the solution. A good analogy would be of single component isocyanate coating that once it cross-links and forms polyurea, it will be very hard to remove. I hope this answers your question. Thanks again.

 

David,

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A good analogy would be of single component isocyanate coating that once it cross-links and forms polyurea, it will be very hard to remove. I hope this answers your question. Thanks again.

 

Man I need to get a chemistry book or something. Never seen those words on Wheel of Fortune! Any one want to sell me a A!

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Brent,

 

Thank you for your question. Adding a second layer of acrylic products in general, as you mentioned, will dissolve the previous layer but it will leave more protection behind than a single layer would. There is, however, a law of diminishing returns since each additional layer adds less than the original layer. So while the second layer may add an additional 20-30% more actives, a third layer may only add 3-5%. With cross-linking polymers, this is not the case since the polymer structure changes and does not readily dissolve by the solution. A good analogy would be of single component isocyanate coating that once it cross-links and forms polyurea, it will be very hard to remove. I hope this answers your question. Thanks again.

 

David,

 

Thank you for your reply David. I am currently using up what's left of my Jeff's Werkstatt Acrylic Jett before switching over to Opti-Seal. I always assumed my AJ was layering because before applying a new layer of Acrylic Jett, I put down Bob Daniels' Danase Wet Glaze and each time I do so, I can see the Danase Wet Glaze noticeably improving the depth of my white car. Based on your explaination, it sounds like Acrylic Jett and Danase Wet Glaze are "sort of" layering. Again, thank you. Looking forward to trying Opti-Seal and my Acrylic Jett runs out.

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Hello. New to the forum!

 

Quick question... I am not a detailer, and I live in a cold weather environment (lots of road salt). I know we're not supposed to dry a vehichle if it has been run through a touchless wash, based on the fact they never remove all the dirt, and drying the car would just drag all the residual dirt accross the paint.

 

Wouldn't it be a good idea to run a car through a brushless wash (when there's no time to clean the car properly), at which point you could use ONR to remove all the remaining dirt, which would allow you to dry the vehichle without the risk of scratches or swirls? This would be a huge deal for me, as my car gets really dirty in winter months, but I'd still like to run it through a conventional (brushless) wash and be able to dry it as well.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice. I'll be ordering products today.

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Hello and welcome to our forums :argue2[1]:

 

A great number of cold climate detailers, both pros and enthusiasts, will power wash or pre-rinse a car if extremely dirty and then go ahead with a No Rinse washing. So if your car is really dirty then this method would work out just great for you.

 

Anthony

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Thank you for your reply David. I am currently using up what's left of my Jeff's Werkstatt Acrylic Jett before switching over to Opti-Seal. I always assumed my AJ was layering because before applying a new layer of Acrylic Jett, I put down Bob Daniels' Danase Wet Glaze and each time I do so, I can see the Danase Wet Glaze noticeably improving the depth of my white car. Based on your explaination, it sounds like Acrylic Jett and Danase Wet Glaze are "sort of" layering, is that correct? Again, thank you. Looking forward to trying Opti-Seal and my Acrylic Jett runs out.

 

Bump

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After 9 years I think there's something to add / amend in this post about the CARLACK sealant and products.

I ignore whether in the past any acrylic resin or acid was used in such products; I myself was persuaded that a variation of EAA was used in the Carlack product. However after investigating, I could observe that this does not seem to hold true. 

To the best of my knowledge no acrylic component exists today in any Carlack product.

To my information, the Carlack LLS (sealant) is based on Dimethicone (a silicone oil) and three waxes (namely Polyethylene Wax, Montan Wax and Petroleum Microcrystalline Wax). It includes Kaolin as filler and light abrasive, Fumed Silica, and Tinuvin-1130 as UV absorber. It contains Naphtha as solvent, along with Heptane and 2-Propanol. It also contains a Polyglycol Ether as a non-ionic surfactant, and few other ingredients. There are no Acrylics in this formulation.

Same applies to the Nano Systematic Care (aka "Complete") and to the Fast Detailer, which contains the same Dimethicone sealant and the Polyethylene Wax, plus some other additives. No Acrylics here, too.

I have noted that in the Carlack.de website no mention is made anymore of the term "Acrylic". In few words, to my information the Acrylic nature of the Carlack sealant is a myth: this is a Silicone-based sealant like many others. The only remarkable difference from most others, is that UV absorbers are present in the Carlack LLS product.

In case anyone has evidence of the presence of any acrylic component in the Carlack products as of today, please comment.

Enrico Penco

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Well, Carlack.de/.com (actually carlack-deutschland.com) still mentions "PE-Acrylic Compound" at the CL68 NSC's description.

In the MSDS however, only wax emulsion is mentioned. It seems that the LLS was steered completely towards waxes as well.

As they moved their entire production to Maxolen (Switzerland), maybe their basic recipes were tweaked too.

Your infos are very detailed, so a big thanks for that!

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Hi Lowe! Yup it's been a looong time...

I'm a very rare bird on the detailing forums now. But I can't resist the urge, and have to check how the things are goin'.

And wow, the way products & methods are evolving, is truly impressive.

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Well, yes. But consider this: I'm on my last  bottle of ONR. And I still have umpteen jars/bottles of waxes, less and less, but still more than enough polishes, a one gallon jug of OID concentrate, the same amount OCW - but I haven't bought ANYTHING detailing-related thing in the last 5 YEARS...

I haven't even saw a MF pad in its physical entirety... :o:blink::wacko:

I plan to to buy stuff again (Rupes Bigfoots, new gen pads, polishes, compounds), but I MUST force myself to use up my old stack o'products.

Thread hijack off.

Last year I did a Peugeot 207 CC with CL68 ONLY (rotary, orange Scholl pads, one-step). That poor thing was in an awful shape, with grime everywhere, torn leather, tons of dust, bad repaint with peeling CC, CC failure, etc.

The scale of raw chemical cleaning was unbelievable, the pads almost looked like it was a SS. But ultimately, it came out to around 95% which is almost too good for that car. Especially depth was amazing, and the correction factor was very surprising. Accumulator always said that in his experience CL68 was functionally nonabrasive, but the results are better than the lone orange foam would suggest...

So, all in all, acrylics or not, CL68 still produces spectacular results. A very finely tuned, balanced product. I still vote for acrylics, because of its brightness and the characteristic "silver ghosting" when looking from certain angles.

Pics:

IMG_20160729_193647.jpg

IMG_20160729_193601.jpg

IMG_20160730_025019.jpg

IMG_20160730_024749.jpg

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