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Lowejackson

Detailing Efficiency Experiments

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Actually sorry, I didn't realise you said you had the IK 9 until now. 

I only gave the 1.5 for now. Quality is excellent but the spray time is slightly disappointing. 

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i've never been able to wash a car in under 1 hour with ONR. If i clean the wheels, including set up and tear down of my wash equipment (coming from my apartment) it's easily 2 hours. Here is my method and maybe you can make suggestions:

  • 1 bucket, 4 gallons ONR standard dilution
  • multiple microfiber method (creature edgeless from TRC)
  • large platinum pluffle towel from TRC to dry
  • 48 oz. garden pump sprayer

After trying the 2 bucket method with 1 wash media, I decided to test the multiple microfiber (aka "Garry Dean" on the web) method and I've been using this method in all 4 seasons this past year. I spray down the whole car with ONR using the pump sprayer. If it's really dirty, i'll add half a cap more ONR from the 32 oz. cap into the sprayer.

I don't know how they do it in the videos, but no matter the temperature, in the sun, or in the shade, the panel dries up within seconds. So I take a damp microfiber, wash 1 panel at a time and quickly dry it. Most times the ONR dries on the panel before I get to dry it and I find myself rewetting the surface just to dry it. 

I also like using OCW as the drying aid for the smooth and glossy feel. The gloss is becoming a little lost due to all the micromarring and swirls over the year but that's a separate issue. I move to the next panel, flipping the towel to a fresh side as needed. By the end I have a pile of dirty towels, about a gallon or more left of ONR in the bucket. I'll use the remaining to clean the windows or time permitting the wheels.

I've not tried the BRS as the price point is a hard pill to swallow, but are there any tips/tricks for using a sponge? I watched the Forensic Detail video and there's no way I could do that with how fast water evaporates off the panels.

A separate query: to raise money for a cancer walk I offered a free "wash and wax" to donors who gave $30 or more. I would go to their house and use the above technique to clean the body and the wheels. Maybe it was because I would chat with the friend/donors while I was doing it, but the method took me a good 2 hours. Would switching to ONR Wash and Wash and using Opti Seal as a drying aid provide any speed benefits? Or would that mostly have the added benefit of a sealant? I want to do the wash and fast and cheap as possible. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

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14 hours ago, meGrimlock said:

i've never been able to wash a car in under 1 hour with ONR. If i clean the wheels, including set up and tear down of my wash equipment (coming from my apartment) it's easily 2 hours. Here is my method and maybe you can make suggestions:

  • 1 bucket, 4 gallons ONR standard dilution
  • multiple microfiber method (creature edgeless from TRC)
  • large platinum pluffle towel from TRC to dry
  • 48 oz. garden pump sprayer

After trying the 2 bucket method with 1 wash media, I decided to test the multiple microfiber (aka "Garry Dean" on the web) method and I've been using this method in all 4 seasons this past year. I spray down the whole car with ONR using the pump sprayer. If it's really dirty, i'll add half a cap more ONR from the 32 oz. cap into the sprayer.

I don't know how they do it in the videos, but no matter the temperature, in the sun, or in the shade, the panel dries up within seconds. So I take a damp microfiber, wash 1 panel at a time and quickly dry it. Most times the ONR dries on the panel before I get to dry it and I find myself rewetting the surface just to dry it. 

I also like using OCW as the drying aid for the smooth and glossy feel. The gloss is becoming a little lost due to all the micromarring and swirls over the year but that's a separate issue. I move to the next panel, flipping the towel to a fresh side as needed. By the end I have a pile of dirty towels, about a gallon or more left of ONR in the bucket. I'll use the remaining to clean the windows or time permitting the wheels.

I've not tried the BRS as the price point is a hard pill to swallow, but are there any tips/tricks for using a sponge? I watched the Forensic Detail video and there's no way I could do that with how fast water evaporates off the panels.

A separate query: to raise money for a cancer walk I offered a free "wash and wax" to donors who gave $30 or more. I would go to their house and use the above technique to clean the body and the wheels. Maybe it was because I would chat with the friend/donors while I was doing it, but the method took me a good 2 hours. Would switching to ONR Wash and Wash and using Opti Seal as a drying aid provide any speed benefits? Or would that mostly have the added benefit of a sealant? I want to do the wash and fast and cheap as possible. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

Hmmm that's odd. Your method is very similar to mine but takes 2+ hours. It might be a good idea to break down each section and see how long individual parts are taking to try and get the time down a bit.

If I was to roughly guess mine it would be:

  • Setup time - 10 minutes
  • Wheel cleaning - 3-5 minutes per wheel
  • ONR spray down - 5 minutes
  • ONR wash - 15 minutes
  • Dry + Opti-Seal or Car Wax as drying aid - 10 minutes
  • Pack up - 5 minutes

 I don't believe switching products or drying aids will add any efficiency to your wash as they are very similar to what you use now. I switch up between Opti-Seal and Car Wax as a drying aid but they both take about the same amount of time. I'm yet to try the BRS as it isn't for sale in Australia, but I do like the idea of it as it is specifically designed for us with ONR. 

I'm generally in my garage out of the sun (usually at night lately) so I have never had issues with product drying on the surface. I would simply switch up my method and go panel by panel if this was an issue, but I think it would add time to my wash for sure. Maybe changing the time of day you do your wash might help as you won't be constantly chasing the product drying on the surface. I realise this isn't always possible, especially in summer where it is always hot (even at night here).

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking 2 hours to wash a car as it is an enjoyable process and I find it very relaxing when I am doing it. I just also like improving my efficiency when doing it to keep it interesting. I did a write up recently here on my exact method and it is very similar to yours, but I have since improved things by using the IK Foam sprayer on wheels which was a huge improvement as they probably took me twice as long without it.  I foam up the wheels and wheel wells, scrub away with various brushes and then simply rinse the whole area down after I am done with the ONR in a pressure sprayer. 

If improving efficiency is what you are after I do think breaking down each part and seeing exactly how long it takes you can expose areas that can be sped up.

Nick 

 

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Thr ONR-wash part can be hugely different. Some dare to only "apply" ONR by going semi-randomly over the areas quickly when others, like me, like to think "scooping" the dirt into the wash medium is the right way. More precisely, beeing careful going just one way and going over twice with a fresh wash medium is the way to go. I use the CG Big Chubby sponge because I find the microfibers are just the right length and they can release the dirt properly using the washboard.

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15 hours ago, No Soap said:

Thr ONR-wash part can be hugely different. Some dare to only "apply" ONR by going semi-randomly over the areas quickly when others, like me, like to think "scooping" the dirt into the wash medium is the right way. More precisely, beeing careful going just one way and going over twice with a fresh wash medium is the way to go. I use the CG Big Chubby sponge because I find the microfibers are just the right length and they can release the dirt properly using the washboard.

I think the ONR pre-spray is very important. I find it 'sticks' to the paint and helps break down what ever is on there before getting to the actual physical wash part. This is much more effective than simply using water to pre-wash the car as I find it just runs off and drys in no time, even in cold weather. This allows me to use slow, straight lines with the wash media without having to go back over sections multiple times as some of the work is already done just by having ONR sitting on the car. This will be near impossible on a warm day or in the sun as it will likely dry on the car.

In the early days of my use of the product I actually scratched my car trying to get a stubborn bug off by scrubbing (even gently) with my wash mitt. This was obviously a very stupid thing to do because you will scratch your paint doing this no matter how you wash the car. Pre-soaking bugs and other similar things breaks them down just enough to come off in one pass by the time I get to washing. If they still don't come off I will soak them in Instant Detailer and Gloss Enhancer after drying the car and gently wipe them off with an ONR soaked towel. It's very rare that I need to do this these days.

I am interested in the Chemical Guys sponge you use as I am still not completely sold on the multiple microfiber towel method as there is no real cushioning of it between your hand and the paint. The BRS is still not for sale in Australia for some reason.

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  MeGrimlock, do you live in a particularly warm part of world or work in direct sunlight?  ONR drying so quickly does seem strange.  Might be worth spraying one panel at a time, give it a few seconds and then wash with the ONR.

As others have pointed out, taking an hour or two to wash a car is not a bad thing, in my experiment above, all I did was clean the exterior panels, not the wheels, door jams, wheel arches etc. 

I would try and find a way of washing the car without ONR drying and then think about getting faster.  Is your car quite old or possibly have single stage paint?

 

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I live on the east coast of the US. Humid summers, mild to blizzardy winters (depends on the day of the week). Even with a 2 bucket soap and water wash, I'm constantly rewetting the surface because the soap dries before I can move on to the next panel. This is in the shade, in the evening, all four seasons. I know this is part of the bottleneck as I'm constantly rewetting the panels with ONR.

It's not that I don't enjoy the experience, I just have better things to do with my 2 hours, especially when i'm washing my car in the winter. I'm trying to minimize my time in the cold. And especially if i'm offering a free wash for donations.

I might try the sponge next time, and time each individual task for a better idea what is taking the longest.

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I live in South Western Ontario which is comparable in climate to North Eastern US (hot humid summers and cold snowy winters) and I typically only have issues with ONR drying quickly when washing in full sun and typically on darker coloured vehicles.  To minimize the issue of drying too fast, I typically wear a detailer's belt which has my drying aid (opti-seal) and drying towel pre-folded and ready for immediate drying  of a car panel within seconds of applying ONR with BRS.  The largest area I may apply ONR at one time before drying is the entire hood (4 x 6 ft area) but if you are having significant issues I would reduce the largest application area to half or less.  

Now if you are still having drying/spotting issues from ONR solution drying in the Sun, I would not necessarily fully wet the surface with standard ONR wash media (either microfiber dripping with ONR or BRS soaked with ONR).  The spotting you are seeing is "polymer" spots which is not the same as hard water (mineral) spots.  The easiest way to remove these polymer spots is to use an ONR dampened towel (not dripping wet).  I typically find the drying microfiber towel I used for one third to half the vehicle is a good damp consistency for re-wipping these areas that may be drying too fast and quickly follow up with new drying towel.

The main advantage of the BRS over using microfiber towels is that it can hold a lot more ONR such that as you are wiping over heavily soiled areas, you can squeeze the sponge to release more solution to flush the area and potentially remove the need to pre-spray.  In my early days of using ONR, this was my method.  These days, I typically pre-spray but only the dirtiest area (typically sides panels around wheels and rear of vehicle) just so the ONR can start breaking up the heaviest dirt before passing over area with BRS.

My wash time for a vehicle that I don't need a ladder/step stool for accessing the roof  is typically 30 mins with 10 mins for setup/pack up.  For larger vehicles with tall roofs extend wash time by 10-15 mins.

Hope this helps.

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All this talk about ONR drying on the surface and stuff...I avoid it all together by simply washing & drying the car panel by panel (or sometimes after washing 2-3 panels I procede to use OID or Opti seal and dry).

I never had any issue that way. I never wash the entire car before I dry it.

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This is one of my favourite videos which I try and replicate when I can during training.  It is essentially looking at the very simple task of washing dishes.  This video does not have Hollywood production levels but it does show how simple tasks can be easily improved and the same principals apply to working on cars.

The title of this video is "One Piece Flow......".  One piece flow is the simple idea of processing one item at a time so the product/process moves smoothly throughout the business and stops the build up  of queues of work which is inefficient as it slows things down.   None of this theory is critical to watching the video.

There is another video on making toast which I will post if I can find the full length version

 

 

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